"Trash fish"?

[JoeW]

Don't talk down what are often refered to as "trash fish"! Around here, the common suckers are called that, and I've often seen them just thrown up on the bank to die when caught accidentally. But they serve a purpose! They're a prime source of food for gamefish, especially when young- and let me add, they're a terrific bait for big Northern Pike in the spring! They also root along the bottom and keep the creeks clean of dead matter. And don't overlook their potential as a target fish for your fishing. When I was a youngster in PA, I grew up along the banks of the Allegheny River. In the Spring, long before the river was clear enough, low enough, and warm enough for Bass and Walleyes, there where suckers! My gang's first fishing in the Spring was for these guys! Small hook, with just enough worm to cover it, fished on the bottom! Challenging to catch, believe me!
As for food quality- an old man up the street from me would BUY springtime suckers from us! A nickel apiece! Said he cleaned them, took off the head, scales and fins, then ran them twice through a meat grinder. Mixed them with bread crumbs and made fish patties that were "Dee-licious"! Heck, I could make a half a buck in a morning and put it into my fund to buy tackle to fish for "real" fish! My first fish of over 10 pounds (I wish it had been a Muskie or Walleye!) was a ten pound, giant red horse sucker! What a thrill!

OK- don't put down the suckers! Who's next to become an advocate for "trash fish"! Best---- JoeW :)

[Razor]

In my place, I think these things are called Squaw fish and the basically kill other fish like walleye for example. I heard you can't eat these becasue they have lead poisoning.

[JoeW]

Squawfish are native to Pacific Northwest, only there. And yes, terrific predators I understand, feeding on all kinds of gamefish. But that's an entirely different fish from the Common Sucker of the East. Note that the mouth of the Sucker is underneath it's "face"-- a true bottom feeder- not built for swallowing other fish. The Squawfish has a predator's mouth, in front, and big! Nasty looking! But, boy, they sure do look a lot a like! Thanks for the post- I've never been to the left coast to sample any of the fishing and am really not familiar with what you have out there. Best---- JoeW

[JoeW]

Man! Those things ARE nasty! Does anyone fish for them? How big do they get! Tell you what, keep them out there your way! What else do you have out there that I've never heard of before? Best---- JoeW :eek:


(ptychocheilus oregonensis)
The Northern Squawfish
http://www.dunnsfishfarm.com/images_templ/squawfish.jpg
The champion fish-eater in North America is the squawfish, found in the Pacific Northwest. It can actually eat fish larger than itself. Think about it, a squawfish can digest a fish as quick as it is swallowing it. Since one of their favorite meals is salmon, there have actually been bounties placed on the squawfish. As a general rule, a piscivorous (fish-eating) fish like a bass can eat another fish that is cylindrically shaped, like a shiner, that is up to 1/2 it's own length and a flattened fish, like a bluegill, that is up to 1/3 it's own length. In other words, a 12 inch bass weighing about a pound can eat a 6 inch shiner or a 4 inch bluegill. Large bass can starve if the only forage available is too small, because they expend more energy catching and digesting a small fish than the energy they get from it.

[fatworm]

Sucker fish, oh yes! We have many here in the Pacific Northwest. Personally, I don't fish for suckers, but I know a few people that have. These monsters easily grow to three feet in length! They also spawn like crazy!

Squaw fish - A more uncommon fish in our lakes/rivers, but if you head up North to Canada, then you will find them in many rivers. Here's my story on the one and only one I ever caught!

It was a beautiful sunny, slightly windy day. I was up at the Colville River with another buddy of mine. We were out for some Walleye fishing and the Walleye weren't doing so good. I don't remember what we were using for bait, but I can guarantee it was just a worm strapped on with a green, yellow, red rubber tube (our common bait for Walleye). While walking alongside the river, I saw a fish leap out of the water. I quickly cast my line out, plop! Right into that same spot where I just saw the fish. Two seconds later, WHAM! I quickly begin to reel it in, my buddy came around to help pull that "sucker" out. It felt like an easy 7 pounder. On the bank, I lost my hopes, thinking it was a Walleye I caught. Instead it was shaped like a large round carp, with a "sucker-type: mouth. Some of the locals at the river later told me it was a squawfish. I ended up giving that squaw to my buddy - for the chickens... Not many people eat it, from what I was told. However, I do have to add that these fish look very "clean", and compared to the Northern Carp, it's a royalty.

Anyway, that was my one and only experiences with a squawfish. They put on quite a "show" when reeling them in!

[fatworm]

If I may also add, that pic is a "little of date". My squaw, had a "head angle" of almost 45 degrees. It was a fat one! Must have ate all the Walleye's in the river that day.:D

[JoeW]

Yea, I don't know why, but the pics I used for the posts always show little skinny fish! Not too proportional. Now I'm a bit confused-- did the fish you caught have a "sucker mouth", like at the end of a short little tube, underneath it's head? ? That's the way suckers are. But from what I see in the pic (I've never even come close to a Squawfish!), the Squawfish have sort of a trout-like mouth? And a sucker NEVER would have hit a tube-- too slow. What you caught must have been a Squawfish, but I'm confused about the mouth.
Carp are a different story- They are tremendous fighters on the end of a line! But there are too many of them around here, and too big! Schools of 10-20 pounders swim up out of Lake Erie when the Smallmouth are spawning, and I've actually seen Carp push a Bass off her spawning nest to eat her eggs! Not good! They root up the silt on the bottome and muddy the water. Some people swear they're good eating (I understand in Europe they are a delicacy and are farm raised!). I've had them smoked once, and they were good, but as far as I'm concerned, they do a lot more harm than good.
Suckers good, carp bad, squawfish bad. What's the next "trash fish" we evaluate? Thanks for the post. Best--- JoeW

[fatworm]

Yea, I don't know why, but the pics I used for the posts always show little skinny fish! Not too proportional. Now I'm a bit confused-- did the fish you caught have a "sucker mouth", like at the end of a short little tube, underneath it's head? ? That's the way suckers are. But from what I see in the pic (I've never even come close to a Squawfish!), the Squawfish have sort of a trout-like mouth? And a sucker NEVER would have hit a tube-- too slow. What you caught must have been a Squawfish, but I'm confused about the mouth.
Carp are a different story- They are tremendous fighters on the end of a line! But there are too many of them around here, and too big! Schools of 10-20 pounders swim up out of Lake Erie when the Smallmouth are spawning, and I've actually seen Carp push a Bass off her spawning nest to eat her eggs! Not good! They root up the silt on the bottome and muddy the water. Some people swear they're good eating (I understand in Europe they are a delicacy and are farm raised!). I've had them smoked once, and they were good, but as far as I'm concerned, they do a lot more harm than good.
Suckers good, carp bad, squawfish bad. What's the next "trash fish" we evaluate? Thanks for the post. Best--- JoeW


Yes, what I caught was a Squawfish. Squawfish have a "sucker-hybrid" like mouth. The mouth is trout-like, but the lips are slightly "puffed out" with short "tentacles" hanging down. The picture you have is not very detailed. The rest of the head is completely identical to a trout.

Carp is a delicacy when smoked, I strongly agree. They also have their ups and downs, such as not being clean. They live in green slimy lakes around these parts and dwell in the lake filth. For that reason, I don't fish them. Yes, they always have a fight in them. I've been told that they also kill of the Crappie in lakes.

Lots of fish to talk about, how about we make a "fish-dictionary"?:D

[fatworm]

Here's a more accurate picture. Mine was much "fatter" then this one, though.

Pic found here:
http://www.norcalangler.com/2009/03/05/bass-fishing-trifecta/

[JoeW]

Ah, now I see-- yea- your right- my pics were actually drawings, I think, and didn't show much detail. They look even nastier in your pic! No thanks- keep them out your way!

And the deal with carp, not only do they eat fish eggs from game fish, but their constant rooting in the bottom stirs up the silt which then covers the eggs of spawning fish (like Crappie!) and smothers them! Here in NY, there's no closed season, no size limit, you can fish them, bow fish them, spear them, or whatever! Probably even shoot them! A couple of lakes have a "Carp Derby" with just a couple prizes-- whoever "gets" the most, and whoever "gets" the biggest-- no questions asked. Funny, I don't think it ever even dents the population of carp! I seem to remember that carp aren't even native to North America- that they were imported here from Europe way back in the 1870's as what was thought to be an new game and food fish for anglers. Go figure. Carp (and Squawfish!), I could live without! Best---- JoeW:)

[RAK]

Suckers are good to eat when fried. What I do sometimes is make fillet and fry the suckers. However you need some time to make fillet from suckers. It is not as easy as filleting a trout.





In our state you can also do anything with carp.

[fatworm]

Ah, now I see-- yea- your right- my pics were actually drawings, I think, and didn't show much detail. They look even nastier in your pic! No thanks- keep them out your way!

....



Hey, I'll drop one in the mail for you. Just send me your address.:p:eek:

[JoeW]

Suckers are good to eat when fried. What I do sometimes is make fillet and fry the suckers. However you need some time to make fillet from suckers. It is not as easy as filleting a trout.


Hi RAK--- I've heard that! I knew the one guy that ground them up into fish patties to fry. And I know when the guides in Canada are netting the creeks for suckers to use for bait, they keep any too big for bait and take 'em home and eat them! I did hear also that after they're fileted, to make a bunch a cross cuts across the filet to help soften any bones that you missed. I may try that next Spring! Now I'm hungry for fish again- think I have some Walleye filets left over the the freezer! :) Best---- JoeW

[JoeW]

OK, here's one you probably never heard! Recipe for carp- would probably work well with Suawfish, too! (and no thanks, don't need a Squawfish sent to me in the mail!).

Take a 2-3 pound carp (or squawfish. Scale it, filet it, but do not remove skin from filet. Don't worry about bones, they won't be a bother.

Take a hardwood plank- Oak works good! And prepare it by covering it with a mix of melted butter, garlic, and a little hot sauce if you want. Be generous treating the plank.
Spread the filets out on the plank and then take some small nails, and nail the filets in several places to the plank to keep it from curling.

Cooking-- Plank can be put in a large roasting pan, or better yet is to prop up the plank in front of a hot fire, like a campfire or barbecue pit! Conitnue to slather butter sauce on fish and plank as it cooks. When fish looks done, take it off the fire, remove nails, remove carp filets, and ..... are you ready for this?.....

Throw out the fish and EAT THE PLANK! It'll taste better than the fish! :):) Hope you enjoyed! Best--- JoeW

[JoeW]

For my Northern US fishing buddies--- This is the Fallfish. Common in Northern NY and the St. Lawrence River Drainage. Growing to 18 inches (averaging about 8- 12 inches), they are among the largest fish of the "Minnow" family native to the U.S. The carp is larger (and yes- it is a "minnow"!), but it is NOT native to this country- they were imported in the 1870's as a food fish, and soon took over the waterways!). Similar to a chub, but of a different group of fishes.

The Fallfish are found in colder, clean, quick flowing streams and readily take bait, spinner, and flies! As a boy, I perfected my fly fishing skills catching these willing biters, AND they put up a tough struggle with jumps and runs equal to any trout, although short lived. We would catch a dozen to use for live bait for Northern Pike, and often times we had so much fun just catching the bait that we forgot about the Pike altogether! Not good on the table, but exciting sport for younger anglers, and adults! They are sporty on light tackle and provide the major part of many minnow eating gamefish's diet. Don't criticize these "trash fish", they're good guys! Best---- JoeW

:)

[RAK]

I think I have one of those in my aquarium. It eats anything that moves. When I slap a mosquito, I take it and drop it in my aquarium. I thought that my fish was a carp but apparently it is a FallFish.

The Blue fish is a Beta. It is also a meat eater.

[JoeW]

The first fish is not a Fallfish. They need cold, clear, running water. Look at the fins- they're different from a Fallfish. Hmmm, it does look like some kind of carp-- but then again, a carp is just a big member of the "minnow" family". Actually, so if the Fallfish, but a different branch of the minnws. (Sorry if I get technical, but I taught Biology for 33 years!)

Ahhh- the "Siamese Fighting Fish"!. My daughter has had several- each with a unique personality! Beautiful fish with those full fins! They live in low swampy areas in Asia. Top feeders-- great for sucking down mosquite larva, I understand!

Best---- JoeW

[fatworm]

....(Sorry if I get technical, but I taught Biology for 33 years!)

....

Best---- JoeW


So that's where the expertise comes from!! :cool: Looking forward to reading more posts from you, Joe!:D

[noxcape]

squaw fish also known as pike minnow up here in canada are nasty little fish they can totally kill off a whole salmon run they have killed off the cultas lake sockeye but they are also great food for smallies up here

[fatworm]

squaw fish also known as pike minnow up here in canada are nasty little fish they can totally kill off a whole salmon run they have killed off the cultas lake sockeye but they are also great food for smallies up here

Those fish will take on anything to put on some pounds! They get fat!

BTW: Welcome noxcape!:cool:

What's your name stand for anyway?

[noxcape]

no escape i stole it from my brother years and years ago lol and well its just stuck and thanks for the welcoming this is a great forum you guys ahve here

[fatworm]

no escape i stole it from my brother years and years ago lol and well its just stuck and thanks for the welcoming this is a great forum you guys ahve here

HAHA! Yeah, it's a great forum, thanks to Fish-hook and the other staff!:D

Be sure to post some good stuff for us! We love to read, and look at pics too...:cool:

[Razor]

squaw fish also known as pike minnow up here in canada are nasty little fish they can totally kill off a whole salmon run they have killed off the cultas lake sockeye but they are also great food for smallies up here


Totally agree with you on this one! they eat walleye. Next time you go fishing, bring a pellet gun so you can target practice.:D lol

[greatdane]

We had a few local lakes up in the interior when I was a teenager that the squaw fish took over. They wiped out every other fish in the system. They opened up the fishing to try and get them all out and restock the lakes. We would find them spawning in the creak mouths and take them out with our 12 gauge. Probably get arrested for doing something that dumb these days but it was a lot faster than fishing for them.
The other side of that was they were a fun fish to catch and would put up a good fight. They were so aggressive they would bight just about any lure or fly.
Alan.
Alan.

[noxcape]

hey great dane how is the fishing up in cambell river did you get do sockeye fishing

[greatdane]

Nope, I have been rear ended twice by drunks and hit head on by a little old lady so my neck and shoulder will not take the bouncing around out on the chuck.
I was down at the ramp the other day and the boats are all coming back with their limit.The say this is the biggest run in history so I really wish I could get out there.
But the pink salmon run was also huge and they opened up the Campbell River a month early this year. I finally figured out what I have been doing wrong the last few years and had a blast. I went to the river 2-3 times a day for a few hours and over 3 weeks landed around 300. They were in the 4 to 6 lb range and a lot of fun to play in the fast moving river. Using 6lb test I lost a lot of hookups but it was worth it. We were allowed to keep 4 a day and they smoke up real good.I have never had that kind of fishing before and can now die happy. They are still catching a few and they are real dark but I am hoping my shoulder gets good enough to let me get back there for another go at them.
I am looking forward to next years run and will be getting a new reel with a better drag system.
Alan.

[fatworm]

Nope, I have been rear ended twice by drunks and hit head on by a little old lady so my neck and shoulder will not take the bouncing around out on the chuck.
....

You be careful out there. Them drunks on the river never bring anything good to us fisherman.:mad:

[Malottguy]

You can take all the Squawfish(Northern Pikeminnow are the official name for them now) and send them to Mars. They are salmon and steelhead smolt killers. To me are a true trash fish. A sucker on the other hand is beneficial to the rivers systems here and are fun to catch.

[RAK]

Squawfish are native to Washington. Before there were dams, the population of squawfish was low because of cold water and fast water. Building dams created reservoirs that are excellent for squaw fish to reproduce in large amounts.

I am sure God knew what he was doing when he created the rivers. Humans made some really big mistakes.

[Malottguy]

I agree RAK about that. Just wish there was more we could do to reduce the population of the squawfish.

Sorry for the first post as a rant just tired of our good native fish being in trouble because of our screw ups.

[fatworm]

You can take all the Squawfish(Northern Pikeminnow are the official name for them now) and send them to Mars. They are salmon and steelhead smolt killers. To me are a true trash fish. A sucker on the other hand is beneficial to the rivers systems here and are fun to catch.

If only we could right? Besides, I heard that Mars needed some life up there anyway.:eek::D

[Malottguy]

Now there is an idea. We get water flowing on Mars again and add Squawfish... Maybe some carp (which are fun fighting trash fish) too.

[fish-hook]

Now there is an idea. We get water flowing on Mars again and add Squawfish... Maybe some carp (which are fun fighting trash fish) too.

LOL You folks are just full of ideas!:)

[RAK]

Washington has a $4 reward for squawfish that you turn in. I am not saying we need squaw fish in the river. Now with the River changed, squaw fish should some how be eliminated permanently.

When I catch Squaw Fish, I either put it in the garden or give it to my hens. Preferably putting in the garden. I don't want my hens eating lead filled bottom feeders.

[Malottguy]

The bounty is only certain sections of the Columbia. I wish they would have it further up and on the Okanogan also and yes they make good fertilizer.

Well we need something to fish for when we get to Mars and there is probably a lot less lead pollution than here LOL...

[RAK]

Since I fish North Columbia, I was thinking of catching lots of Squaws and driving down to the nearest turn in point. Then I did the math and found I would spend more money on gas.

Yep, Mars isn't polluted yet.

[Malottguy]

That would be a long drive LOL... I think putting those fish on Mars would pollute their waters and God knows you don't want to upset the Martians LOL....

[RAK]

Lol !

[Malottguy]

I am not sure if it is a trash fish but what about Chubs? I catch them on occasion and they can be scrappy little fighters.

[mike449]

Hello everyone!
I once lived in Missouri, and in Nixa MO. they love the sucker. Every year, in the summer, they throw a huge fest called the Nixa Sucker Fest. Sucker was served in a variety of southern dishes and more tradtional recipies. Yes, I tried it. I ate the fish and chips they offered and they were good. I have also heard of people smoking the sucker.
Mike:rolleyes:

[lip ripper]

Man if you season it enough and deep fry it I will eat any fish.

[bass or bass?]

I think I have one of those in my aquarium. It eats anything that moves. When I slap a mosquito, I take it and drop it in my aquarium. I thought that my fish was a carp but apparently it is a FallFish.

The Blue fish is a Beta. It is also a meat eater.




Other than the beta, all your photos are a carp.

[RAK]

Other than the beta, all your photos are a carp.

Yeah its some sort of carp. It is bigger than before.

[ravenmadd]

we have the same thing here in the south with grennal and gar.i caught a grennal last week end and a fella told me to stab it and throw it up on the bank. now why in the hell would i do that? i caught him he did'nt catch me, i ain't mad at him. my brother in law and i have caught some nice grennal and gar ( you can see at bowfinanglersgroup.com ) and had so much fun doin it. not good for eating but man what a fight. trash fish! never heard of such.

[JoeW]

Here's a link to ravenmadd's Bowfin (Grinnel) site in the post above. http://www.bowfinanglers.com/

Man, the pic is worth a look!

My only experience with Bowfin is in Canada. With early season Pike fishing up there with big suckers for bait, every now and then, we'd hook what felt like a big Pike, but would stay deep, make long, but slow runs. Talk about stamina- they would actually fight longer than a Northern! Always turned out to be a Bowfin.

They have a snake-like mouth, full of little sharp teeth. It's claimed that a Bowfin will attack a fish larger than itself and just hold on until it tears a chunk loose from it. I've caught Northerns there that someimes had big wounds in their sides! The camp we stayed at asked that fishermen kill all the Bowfin they catch- but we never could- like was said- we were mad at them or anything and they always provided some tense moments! Trash fish.. or not? Best---- JoeW

[dugger]

Yea they(carp) are a pain for the game fish eggs unless you make them (carp) the new game on a fly rod ,yes a fly rod , like catching a pontiac going the other way ,when they are mouthing the surface lay a white or black floater in front of one and see if you will call him trash. after he breaks your sissy traditional trout rods you will get a salt water rod with some backbone also being from new mexico sometimes you can catch a big ole brown trout while targeting the carp as they like the same little coves at our lakes I go to and using a archery spools a blast too so if they will bite why not !!

[tholmes]

A fish that's pretty common in the larger reservoirs around here that a lot of people consider "trash" is the Freshwater Drum.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3fyRekO7Q7Xh3u1qaRduTIvSVjLrWW YkL6q465Eq14RLT8bo&t=1&usg=__e2gSSric90tWHKo2G6nDP4VUTlE=

While I have never targeted them, I've caught plenty of drum while fishing for other species. They'll readily take almost any type of lure, but I've caught them mostly on white jigs and flashy chrome spoons and crankbaits. They hit like a freight train and wear you out fighting, especially if they're in the 10 lb. range and up. Some folks claim that they make excellent table fare, but I can't vouch for that, as I've never kept any.

Tom

[ravenmadd]

by the way have the bills one yet?

[bass or bass?]

by the way have the bills one yet?


No, nada, zilch.

[bass or bass?]

I used to catch bowfin and gar when I was a teenager in Florida. They both put up a heck of a fight. I loved catching them.

[JoeW]

tholmes! Don't know why I missed it! Freshwater Drum--- here near Lake Erie they're called "Sheephead" well, for obvious reasons. And they ARE a real nuisance when targeting bass or walleye! Seem to hit on anything! Lake Erie is crawling with them! Some fishermen smack on the boat before throwing them back, but I don't agree with the senseless killing of anything. Strong, but short fight is OK, but then again, 2-4 pounds is about top end here. Considered inedible around here. Yep, that IS another one I could do without. Couple stories/bits of information:

friend of mine where I taught kept asking for Walleyes when my buddy and I went fishing for them. After a couple luckless days catching only sheephead, I finally kept a couple of them, filleted them (nice clean white meat!) and gave them to the friend the next day telling him they were walleye. Geez, he came back in a couple days later raving about how good they were!! Asked for more! Never told him, never gave him anymore, never tried them myself!
Freshwater drum are actually a salt water fish that have migrated all through the river systems. They're now land locked in many cases, but thrive! Down South, like in LA, I guess they're great to eat, at least the one's taken in SW!
Sheephead have a pair of large, lumpy "ear bones" called otoliths in their head, made of calcium- helps them detect vibrations. Old timers often cut these otoliths out of sheephead and called them lucky fishing stones. Never tried it- don't want to go poking that far into the head of any "trash fish". Best---- JoeW
Hey, great report for this forum, thanks! Best---- JoeW

[JoeW]

:eek: OK talk about “demons from the deep”! Hellbenders! I have caught these twice! Occasionally while catfishing on the Allegheny River in PA, and once ice fishing on Lake Erie! These are big! Not the finger-sized little brook newts! They grow to 30 inches and 5 1/2 pounds in weight- the 3rd largest Salamander in the world! These are not the smaller cousins used for bass bait down South! The one’s I caught were “babies” at about a foot long. As a matter of fact, I kept the one from Lake Erie in an aquarium in the basement for a year and a half before releasing it again! Fed it hamburger! Youngsters have red external gills, which become leathery when adults. They are covered with a thick slime. Despite the pictures, they are beautiful creatures to watch- very graceful!

Found only from southwestern and south central New York, west to southern Illinois, and south to extreme northeastern Mississippi and with a heavy population in Eastern Tennessee as well as the northern parts of Alabama and Georgia. considered rare to endangered throughout their range.

Crayfish and small fish are the main food items consumed by Hellbenders. They have no preference whether the food is alive, dead, or even decomposing! They also eat mollusks, worms, and insects. Specimens have been found containing lamprey, tadpoles, aquatic reptiles, and even one containing a toad and another with a small mammal.

Despite their varied diet- they are not considered a threat to fish species, and are only occasionally caught by fishermen. Strong jaws, and an old wive’s tale claims they are poisonous, but more likely their bite can lead to infections because after all, they don’t brush their little rough teeth too often!

So-- “trash fish”? Hardly. Not a fish, isn’t harmful to other wildlife, and serve a very important scavenger duty where they are found. Just a nasty looking “thing” you might run into! Hey, some Native Americans considered them a food source! I'm very curious if anyone else has ever bumped into one? Best---- JoeW


Here's a link to more info:Hellbender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Hellbender.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Hellbender.jpg/220px-Hellbender.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/8/87/Hellbender.jpg/220px-Hellbender.jpg

[bass or bass?]

I've never seen one of those, but my cousin caught a mud puppy (another large species of salamander) once when we were kids fishing the Clarion River in Ridgeway PA. and it was @ 18" long.
My fishing partner and I regularly use water dogs (tiger salamander larva) as live bait. The bait/tackle stores here in Arizona sell them. They are rather pricey though, normally @ $1.50 to $2.00 each. Bass love 'em. They average 3 to 8 inches, but I've seen specimens 12 inches long.

[JoeW]

Yep, Mud Puppy same as Hellbender! Also called Waterdog and Allegheny Alligator, among other names. And Ridgeway would be the right part of the country! Glad to know someone else has seen them! Thanks for the post.
And using waterdogs for bait! I don't even like to grab a leech to put it on the hook! Best---- JoeW

[skinnywater]

I suppose the trash fish here in Central Florida would have to be the Tilapia. The nice thing about them is that most anglers are ignoring them and they taste great. Order one at Red Lobster and find out!

Tilapia get nice and big - about the biggest panfish there is.

Here's a photo of my son with a few he caught 1 yr. ago.

skinnywater

[JoeW]

Trash Fish! I've had Tilapia here in Western NY several times--- delicious! Grocery Store charges $7 a pound for them! If those are the worse trash fish you have down there, you are a lucky man! Wish I could go out and yank up a stringer full of them like your pic! Best----- JoeW PS- they're freshwater, right? Hit lures? Do you guide trips for Tilapia?

[mike449]

Trash fish in Montana,
We have suckers and whitefish which most of us consider trash fish but the white fish are often smoked and taste good. The suckers make good bait for trout in the right seaon (where it is legal LOL) so they have a use at least. Thats all the "Trash" type fish we have here; that I am aware of anyways.
Fish On!
Mike

[JoeW]

Man! First Talapia, now Whitefish as "trash fish"! My smoker would be going 24/7 if we had whitefish around here! $12 a pound for Smoked Whitefish at the store! You guys have it made! OK- next spring, I'm going to try smoking all the "trash fish" I catch--- suckers, carp, sheephead, maybe even chubs! I may even try left over bait shiners!
Loved it in New Orleans where we'd buy a bucket of shrimp for fishing, and any leftover "bait" was just added to the fish fry that night! Hmmmm- smoked nightcrawlers? LOL! Best---- JoeW (Thanks for the post!)

[dugger]

Gumbo !! you can throw it all in a Gumbo

[skinnywater]

Trash Fish! I've had Tilapia here in Western NY several times--- delicious! Grocery Store charges $7 a pound for them! If those are the worse trash fish you have down there, you are a lucky man! Wish I could go out and yank up a stringer full of them like your pic! Best----- JoeW PS- they're freshwater, right? Hit lures? Do you guide trips for Tilapia?

Tilapia are tough buggers to catch. Yes, they are freshwater, but they are vegetarians imported from Africa in the 1960's to eat the hydrilla that were clogging our waterways. They are from the cichlid family.


It seems tilapia are caught more by "curiosity" when they mouth a bait rather than truly "taking the bait" with an aggressive hit.

The "trash fish" designation comes from the criteria: non native, preying on gamefish young and their reproduction.

Tilapia are caught in my area mostly by gigging, spearing, bowfishing and castnetting. The anglers who are catching them on the hook are using breadballs, wax worms, nightcrawlers, dog food, corn kernels and even crickets. That said, how rigid is the term "vegetarian"?

The tilapia caught in the photo were castnetted.

Never heard anyone claim to have caught tilapia on a lure. Wonder..... Maybe time to go fishing and find out.

[JoeW]

Whoa--- interesting!
1. Tilapia aren't fished for? At least seriously? Looks like they are like BIG Bluegills! But, yea, if they feed mainly on plant material, it would be tough. I'll bet a little tiny fly would take them- heck, I catch suckers on a little white fly fished right near the bottom!

2. Tough to define "trash fish"-- that's the reason I started this thread, Brown trout aren't native to the US and they're part of the reason the Native Brook Trout population slumped- they just couldn't compete with the Browns, and heck all Gamefish and panfish will slurp in a little minnow, whether it's a gamefish fry or not, and even if it's one of their own! And steelhead think nothing of sucking down other steelhead eggs. Hard to pin down exactly what a "trash fish" IS!

Interesting stuff here! Thanks for your post. Best----- JoeW

[mike449]

People have diffrent views on "Trash Fish" thats for sure. Example..... Nixa MO........Every summer they have a giant "sucker Fest" Called ,you guesed it, Nixa Sucker fest. They cook it many diffrent ways and I enjoyed all that I sampled. In MT nobdy that I know of eats the sucker...yuck but in reality it is good. One fishermans trash is anothers treat.... Fish On. LOL

[JoeW]

The American Eel:


This snake-like creature IS actually a type of fish-- they have scales, have jaws lined with fine teeth, and are covered with thick slime. No gills- they breathe through their skin. The electric “eel” and the Lamprey “eel” are not true eels, but the American Eel, like the Moray eel, are!

Interestingly, eels are “catadromous”-- they spend most of their live in freshwater, but return to the ocean just once to spawn! They spawn in one region of the Atlantic off of Cuba, then die. The newly hatched eelets then migrate thousands of miles up the rivers of the Gulf and Eastern US to mature. Maturing takes up to twenty years or longer, which are all spent in freshwater. When mature, they then begin their one-time migration back down to Cuba. Typically found in the Mississippi (and all it’s tribs, the Hudson, and the St. Lawrence Rivers, and in the lower Great Lakes. They can reach 36” when mature, and some as large as 5 feet have been reported. They ARE predators, feeding on insects, frogs, crayfish, snails, fish, and earthworms- just about the same diet as for a gamefish. The younger eels do provide an important food source for saltwater fish!

Prized in Europe as a food fish, they are trapped, speared, and netted commercially. There is quite a following in the US also, and they are claimed a delicacy!

My experiences- I’ve accidentally caught several while fishing in Northern NY in the tributaries to the St. Lawrence! They are slimy, mean-looking, and wrap themselves all up in your line. All the ones’ I’ve caught were “released” by cutting the line several feet up from them! Didn’t want to touch, or even come close to them! Local grocery store carried them ONCE, and I had to try one (NOT cheap, BTW!). Had to skin it-- what a mess! I ended up with a two foot long “rope” of mushy, greasy (not just oily!) fish! Cut it into chunks, floured them, and started to fry it up- gagging the whole time! As they started to brown in the pan now full of foaming, bad smelling grease- I gave up and threw the whole mess out, pan and all! House smelled for days, wifey didn’t talk to me (or use the kitchen!) for a week! :(

So--- not really a “trash fish”, just another interesting critter you might encounter. Personally I have no use for them!

Best----- JoeW

[bass or bass?]

One more interesting fact about American eels; Only females ascend into freshwater rivers and lakes. The males stay in brackish water estuaries along the coast.

[skinnywater]

Trash fish are the reason that I bought a smoker. I felt like I was wasting some good eating when I caught a "trash" fish.

Seems there was always a comment like, "Yeah, you can smoke that kind of fish, but I wouldn't," and then we would throw it back.

Well, I did buy a smoker. One of the best fishing related purchases I ever made, that smoker! Now I find myself preferring smoked fish over many other conventional ways of preparing it.

[JoeW]

Lampreys!

First of all, lampreys are NOT “eels”. Calling them “lamprey eels” is a misnomer. Lampreys, unlike an eel, have no jaws, no true teeth, no paired fins and a skeleton made of cartilage, not true bone. They are gill breathers. And, they are not Remorah, which attach to sea-living fishes only as a means of hitchhiking and stealing a few crumbs.

Lampreys are ocean dwellers but are anadromous, like salmon. The young are born in inland rivers, live in the ocean as adults, and return to the rivers to breed. Young emerge from the egg as larvae, blind and toothless, and live that way for 3 to 7 years, buried in mud and filter-feeding. Once they have grown to a certain length, they change into their parasitic form, after which they migrate back to the sea. At this stage, they are parasites, feeding on the tissue and blood of fish. After several years of feeding in the ocean, they become sexually mature and stop feeding. Mature lampreys then return to freshwater rivers and streams and spawn, after which they die. Note: the mature anadromous lampreys, when running up freshwater rivers, DO NOT FEED!

Ha ha! There is a second strain of lamprey which has genetically adapted to living it’s entire life cycle in freshwater. These are referred to as the Great Lakes Lamprey. The building of the Erie Canal and the Welland Canal gave the sea lamprey access to a much wider range, first spreading into Lake Ontario, then Erie, and eventually throughout the Great Lakes. This was in the 1800’s- 1940’s. They now have adapted genetically to not having to return to the ocean to mature! They live in he Lakes and DO FEED on fish, spawn in the rivers, and the young move downstream only as far as the Lake to mature. These are the critters that I have seen many times attached to Trout and Steelhead- the landlocked variety of lamprey!

When feeding, the lamprey attaches to its host fish by means of a mouth sucker, then uses the rows of teeth-like raspers or cirri) to wear an opening in the fishes body. Once done, it will then feed on the blood and tissues. This oftentimes results in the host fish’s dying, although many Great Lakes fish carry to wide scars of being attacked. I have seen Salmon with a lamprey attached, jumping in the water, evidently trying to throw the intruder.

Lampreys are thought to be greatly responsible for the decline of some Great Lakes fisheries, including that of the Lake Trout.

I was once wading belt deep while Steelhead fishing and sensed something wiggling down by my feet. Looked down and saw a lamprey about 30 inches long swimming between my legs! Geez, I just about ran across the top of the water getting out of there- didn’t want any lamprey clamping on to me!

OK, vote time--- definitely a “trash fish”! I see no redeeming value only detriments, and they are non-native parasites, And, they’re not very attractive! Best--- JoeW

[dugger]

Gosh your like The wizard of OZ

[JoeW]

:D ha ha! Tough to stop after teaching Biology for 33 years! Always liked anything to do with the outdoors and like to share what I know, and what I am still learning. I try to post unusual, interesting stuff that some people may not be aware of. And at the same time, I enjoy reading posts that tell me about things that I don't know about. Great place to do that here!

... and I'm a fast typist! Best---- JoeW

[bass or bass?]

Lampreys - the ultimate trash fish. No redeeming value. Kill them on sight and make sure to NOT dispose of their corpses in the water. They may have eggs inside.

[JoeW]

Yea, I copy on that! Do you have experience with lampreys? Several years ago they were a plague on Lake Erie! Just about every Steelhead/Salmon that you caught had one or two lamprey scars on it, and I told you the fish were jumping sometimes and you could see the lampreys on them. Then they seemed to thin out for several years because of the DEC poisoning the breeding streams, but now they seem to be increasing again! Couple years ago, I was Steelhead fishing on the main feeder to Lake Erie, and noticed the water started turning pink, then within minutes it was bright red! Holy crud, like the Nile! Found out later that the DEC was dumping lamprecide upstream and the first thing they do is dump red dye into the water to check the current flow! Scary! Funny, too, but I've only ever seen the one lamprey in the water--- must move at night and hide under rocks during the day. Yep- #1 of my list of trash fish. Best---- JoeW

[big roe]

I've pulled a couple off some salmon and steelhead out of Lake Michigan. They are creepy things I hate to see on my fish. Lamprey are a nasty invader also I hope they can keep those Bighead Carp and the other species of Carp out the Great Lakes. I know they are building some kind of fence near where I live to keep them from getting out of the Wabash river system when it floods and making it to the Great Lakes.

[skinnywater]

Went to the State Fair last month and talked to a State Fisheries research biologist.

When I told him that we enjoyed catching tilapia here in Central Florida, he let this bomb drop:

Tilapia (according to research collected in the last 10 years) are one of the few invasive species populating the Southeast that do NOT compete for food with native game fish AND have not been found to view native game fish as a food option!

This info was received with great relief as we are almost overrun with this species.

Just thought some others might want to know.

BTW, legal methods include any that don't include electric shock or explosives.

Tight lines!

skinnywater

[slipperybob]

People treat bullheads as trashfish of the catfish. Then there's the ones who treat rockbass as the trashfish of the panfish. Just about everybody I know hate the sheepshead fish. Respectably they're like the only fish that would eat zebra mussles. I hate zebra mussles even more.

[JoeW]

MMMMM- springtime bullheads fried in cornmeal! And Rock Bass have given me some pretty smashing strikes and saved what would have otherwise been a fishless day! And I think Rockies taste better than Largemouths anyday! Two thumbs up on Bullheads and Rockies! :) :)

Sheaphead (as in Lake Erie Sheephead)--- I wish the mussels ate the Sheephead. Always grabbing at baits meant for other fish, real nuisance! Heard they're good smoked, but then again, an old sneaker is probably good smoked! Nah, thumbs down of the freshwater sheephead.:( Best---- JoeW

[slipperybob]

LOL's, the sheepshead is the villain of fish. They are annoying baitstealers. I've never found much meat on the rock bass or bullhead. Both of those fishes seems to have a huge body cavity just for stomach and intestines. Kind of like eelpout, but the eelpout has way more slime. A lot of work for a little bit of meat. I still hate getting barbed by those little bullheads. I make them into walleye or flathead catfish baits.

[JoeW]

I had my first experience with the Round Goby last weekend. I have not seen them personally because I normally fish with artificial lures, but a bait fisherman near me caught one and showed it to me. Looked like a little minnow with fins and spines all over the place! Kinda cute actually. Related to our Sculpin, I understand they are also sold as aquarium pets? Little things- a 10 incher would be a "trophy"!

The verdict is still out on the Goby. Another hitchhiker that arrived in the Great Lakes in the ballast water of ocean going Great Lake's Ships. Like the Zebra mussel (which was another "hitch hiker"), there seems to be good points and bad!

Bad points-
May compete with our native Darters and Sculpins for food
Are a nuisance to fishermen by stealing bait meant for Gamefish
Feed extensively on Zebra mussels, which do help clear contaminants from the water
But may pass these contaminants up the food chain into gamefish
They are known to feed on gamefish eggs and fry
Worthless as a food and/or gamefish
They may spread to smaller inland lakes where their affects may be more pronounced

Good points-
They do feed on Zebra mussels, who in large numbers can be nuisances by clogging water intakes,
boat cooling systems, and do eat up the plankton important to young gamefish.
They are preyed upon by gamefish as food


What do you think? Personally, I'm one thumb up and one thumb down--- time will tell, I guess. They ARE here! Couple links for more info below. Best----- JoeW

http://www.protectyourwaters.net/hitchhikers/fish_round_goby.php

http://seagrant.wisc.edu/greatlakesfish/roundgoby.html

[bass or bass?]

Other than feeding on mussles, it's all down side with these invasive fish. I give them a thumbs down.

[repair]

The real trash fish in South Florida is the Mud Fish.
It tastes like the name (never tried it. )
The other name for it is Bowfin.
We do have Snake Heads down here, they are suppose to taste great never caught one.
The game commision wants you to kill them if caught.

[bass or bass?]

The real trash fish in South Florida is the Mud Fish.
It tastes like the name (never tried it. )
The other name for it is Bowfin.
We do have Snake Heads down here, they are suppose to taste great never caught one.
The game commision wants you to kill them if caught.



I beg to differ sir -no- . Bowfins fight like the Dickens. When I was a teenager fishing the Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano Beach area my friend and I and his dad used to fish specifically for bowfin and gar because of their fighting ability. Not trying to start an argument, just pleading my case. :D

[repair]

I didn't say they didn't put up a good fight, I said they tasted like garbage.

[bass or bass?]

Yeah, I've never know anyone trying to eat one but I've also heard that their meat is mushy and foul tasting. I'm strictly a catch and release fisherman so anything that puts up a good fight is fine with me.

[whisker]

Before I dive any further in,...are there any other bowfishermen on this forum??? We pretty much consider common carp, bighead and silver carp as trash fish here. I won't even try and eat a common carp, but the bighead, siver, and grass carp are actually very good eating!

[JoeW]

Hi whisker. Do the members here realize that in Europe and asia, the common carp is considered a table delicacy! And that carp were actually IMPORTED to this country (1880's?) to be raised as a commercial food fish! Boy, talk about an idea gone bad! Izaak Walton in 1653 in his "Complete Angler" included a very elaborate recipe for baking carp! I don't pursue them, and any I catch by accident are released, but if you've had the others, you might give the Common Carp a try. Who knows? I do know some people eat them and love them, and some others that say they're good smoked.

Eh, I may have to try smoking one this summer. Yea--- I won't be able to catch one when I want it! And what the heck are bighead, silver, and grass carp? Don't have those around here!

I'm still thumbs down on the Carp being a trash fish with few (if any!) redeeming qualities. Have fun, whiskers! Best----- JoeW

[AZAllen]

Sombody mentioned chubs, my only contact with them was in Michigan on vacation when I was 16, my Grandfather loved smoked chubs, tried them, ate several. I also remember reading that some people, in some areas of the Northeast considered smallmouth bass as trashfish because they caught them while trout or salmon fishing.
There is another "squawfish", the Colorado River "Pikeminnow" which is endangered as are most of the fish native to this part of the world.
I knew people who preffered carp to cats or bass as food fish. My only experience with eating them was as a Boy Scout when someone caught one and spitted it over an open fire, was actually pretty good, all the excess oils and so forth had been cooked out.

[whisker]

The bighead & silver (asian) carp are the invasive species you read about in the Mississippi river chain.( I have added a photo album named "whiskerpictures" with several pictures of these invasive fish. )The one in my avatar is an "albino" and the current Nebraska archery state record, and yep I'm kinda proud of it )They are algae eaters consuming mainly plankton, which in turn upsets the whole balance of the food chain. They were imported back in the 60's down south to control algae growth in commercial catfish ponds. They escaped in flooding into the system and have been on the move ever sice. The two are closely related and you may have seen the (silver carp) "flying fish" epidemic on nature channels. They are a dangerous concern on the mississippi, ohio, and missouri river and have made their way into many lakes in flood waters and unknowing or uncaring fishermen dumping self caught bait. They have been found as far as the great lakes locks. The grass carp is widespread and is also an asian carp species. We have paddlefish (spoonbill) in our waters here too, (pictures in album too)and these carp are the biggest competition for their food source.
The common carp are a hard fighting sport fish, and some people have aquired a taste for them,...but when allowed to flourish are detrimental to all sport fisheries. There are many YouTube videos on asian carp, and lots of information on these fish on the web. Look for any videos and articles by Duane Chapman of the USGS. He is the asian carp authority. Eric is the one who got me interested in the asian carp invasion years ago. I hunt these fish hard during the warmer months. We probably take down actual tons of asian carp, which is nothing compared to their population and reproduction capabilities, (they can spawn three times a year). I'm addicted to bowfishing as much as I am rod & reel fishing.

[sharps4590]

I enjoy bowfishing but haven't in years....many years. Perhaps I need to take it up again!

Carp. I wouldn't touch them for anything for the first 30 years of my life. Then we had them canned, pressure cooked, at a friends house. Gentlemen, prepared in that manner it is indeed a delicacy. Finely textured, flavorful, (and I'm a picky fish eater!), and generally just darn good.

I hear those flying carp are up the Missouri at least as far as Jefferson City, Mo.

[whisker]

I hear those flying carp are up the Missouri at least as far as Jefferson City, Mo.
The asian carp passed Missouri many years ago. They have been as far as Gavins Point dam, which is the first dam in the upper Missouri river system on the Ne/Sd border. I have no doubt they will find their way passed these dams, and continue their invasion upstream. There are several big projects trying to keep them below the great lakes chain, but "nature find a way".
:(

[sharps4590]

I was unaware of that whisker. It was only a week or two ago a friend of mine was telling me about them jumping into the air and his boat just upstream from where the Moreau hits the Missouri. He said is was rather scary. Honestly, it was the first I'd heard of them in our area. I was under the impression they had been contained within the immediate Great Lakes drainages. Come to think of it, I only heard of them, the ones that jump that high, only a year or so ago. Goes to show what I know, eh?

[mr bill]

sharpy, yer not as sharp as yer name sake......eh

i don't go out of my way for carp....but they are good eating if ya prepare them right and that starts on the holding and cleaning of them.

as for cats, they are good eating....just need ta get them on the young side.......bullheads are very good too

[Turks8806]

I think last I heard the asian carp was found about 20 miles out of lake erie.